Saturday, March 29, 2014

Awakening is not mystical or spiritual...

i will have a rant and try to bring us to the simplicity that this actually is.
This process is intended to lead to a responding to what is real in a different way to the response to what is concept.
In the beginning, that responding is (almost) a conscious decision. At least is seems this way. (until it happens)
i'm not meaning to be mystical here. This is not even a spiritual process. Just bear with me...
Now if i say to you that the Statue of Liberty is only a concept to you until you experience it. Can you see that ?
Unless you are experiencing it, you can only think about it. Right ?
You can believe that it exists as a solid, concrete object in NY Harbor, but that belief is still thoughts ABOUT it. Right ?
So what is actually Real for you at any time is only that which stimulates the 5 senses.
Now all of this is pretty obvious (once we examine it) so how does it lead to 'liberation' ? you ask..
Let's examine a little deeper.
When we say "what stimulates the senses", how does this occur ?
Is your hand resting on something now ? (if not then rest it somewhere)
Now you might describe the sensation of touch as pressure between the part of your hand and the resting place, but on examination the words "touch", "pressure", "sensation", "hand" etc. are all labels to describe something. They are about it, but they are not it. Comprendé ?
So what is real here ? If it were painful you might say the "ouch ouch" is real, but because we are only talking about what the label 'pressure' points to, there probably aren't words to that point directly to it. Even the "ouch ouch" only points to the thing that the label pain also points to.
The Real, is the sensation that the labels point to. The actual sensation can't be communicated. It can only be experienced. (...or to be pedantic here, if it were experienced, then that would also be a memory. It would be more thoughts ABOUT it. It would have to be the actual experiencing of the sensation. (the verb))
(some homework - you might look up, if you don't already know, what an abstract noun is.)
 Reiterating; Current experiencing is the totality of what is real. ALL else is story. Thought stuff. Concept.
Now here's where the rubber hits the road..
There is very real current experiencing that is not the response to the 5 senses, but is the response to thought. To story. Now often that response is 'tainted' because the concept is taken as real.
In many instances it is of value to take it to be real. This is how we negotiate daily life.
We believe that the door will open when we turn the knob. We believe that tomorrow will exist in a condition that living can continue in a similar way to yesterday, etc.
There are however many beliefs (thought stories) that result in distortions and emotions that are unhealthy and even unpleasant. Stress, anger, frustrations, etc.
Many of these are so entrenched in our cult (ure) that they are taken as real.
Those that unquestioningly behave as if those beliefs are real are said to be 'asleep' by those that are said to have 'awakened'.
The difference between those two 'groups' is not that the awakened have a very agile mind that recognizes which to believe and which to not believe. There is something more fundamental that occurs with the seeing of this. In fact the 'awakened' might only think of this 'division' when an unpleasant or unhealthy emotion starts or is about to start. (and in the beginning, even after it has finished playing out) Otherwise life-ing goes on as 'normal'.
The term 'liberation' refers to being liberated from the dream that what was previously taken as real, but is in fact no more than a belief. A story. Thought stuff.
But it might also refer to being liberated from the weight of the reactions to those beliefs.
One of the biggest weights comes from the concept of Responsibility.
Responsibility is a concept. If we were to replace it with Consequence, we would have a Reality based Idea.
Yes, Consequence is only a story until experiencing (of what the label points to) is happening.
Responsibility is a concept born of a bigger story. Morality.
The story of Morality is a culture based one. The morality around killing an enemy is different for a tribesman in the jungle to what it is for us.
The thing with morality, especially Christian morality is that it it based on the IDEA that humans are inherently bad. My story is that they are inherently good, and that the bad is the result of distorted teachings (upbringing).
Now both are stories, and when we consider them from a Wisdom viewpoint, it becomes obvious that every human is unique, and the conditions for each is unique. In fact our own uniqueness and conditions are so complex and huge in number that we can't even know ourselves. The bit that we do know is a story that consists of (almost) hand picked events and characteristics.
When those events and characteristics mesh to form an acceptable story (usually), we call it Me or I.
Getting away from story or concept, in Experiencing, have you found anything solid or actual that you can call an I ?
Would it be true to say that the word I is an abstract noun, that for centuries has been presumed (unquestioningly) to be an actual thing ?

15 comments:

Retired Seeker said...

I completed LU two years ago and have stalked you ever since! You were not my guide but I always looked for your threads for clarity and still do. I follow you on Facebook and your blog. I loved this one and wanted you to know how important your words are and how you use them as pointers.....and I would expect others feel the same way. You keep me "real". Carlyn

vince schubert said...

Hi Carlyn, your post triggered a warm emotional response here. Thankyou.
i have wondered about the 'value' of my outpourings, and yours is one of the very few that have happened.
These days the inclination to rant is mostly absent, though fires up easily in response to what i perceive as a request for help.
Even guiding on LU has dwindled. (although, due to insufficient guides, i took on another one yesterday)
Guiding keeps me 'real', and is often the stimulus for new realizations. (i encourage you to try it, and would be happy to mentor you)
As for the blog, i started a new post a couple of weeks ago, but didn't even have the motivation to finish it. Your post has produced an intention to do it. (thanks)
Do feel free to contact me directly, anytime. (vinceschubert@gmail.com)

love
vince

Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

I hope you don't mind me asking you a question directly. I tried to send this through LU, but it wasn't leaving the outbox. I read in one of your threads that you had never met anyone that woke up with meditation alone. What do you think is the difference between meditation and dropping the belief on a separate self? I'm asking you this because I'm trying to meditate on awareness watching awareness, and I'm not clear on how to go about it. Thank you!

Paloma

vince schubert said...

No, i don't mind.
Are you saying that when you meditate, that you are reminding yourself constantly to be aware that you are aware of what arises as thoughts ?
To drop the belief in a separate self, to let go of any belief, is not something that can happen consciously.
If the conditions required for that to happen, were to align, and it did happen, then it would also be seen that the meditation is just a nice entertainment.

Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

Thank you for your answer. There are some people that have expanded on Ramana Maharshi's self-enquiry questioning, and recommend to watch awareness in action in meditation as a similar way to find the real self (Michael Langford, amongst others). How would you recommend enquiring or doing experiential research on the I/self thought in everyday life?

Cheers,

Paloma

vince schubert said...

Ok, firstly let me say that it was churlish of me to say that meditation is just an entertainment. It has many values.
i was referring to using it to awaken. Certainly when meditating, insights can happen, and it's these insights that carry you through the portal. The insights won't happen from a passive breath watching (although other benefits do)
You already know intellectually that there is no separate self (right?), no little you in there, running the show. Rather than searching for a self that you know doesn't exist, if you meditate on how the show actually works, you are more likely to stumble on meaningful insights.
As for everyday life, if you celebrate the recognition that you are/have been lost in a story (of self) each time that recognition occurs, and celebrate it with a laugh, you will change the conditioning, the habit of acting out this story.
Each time you do this you dissolve old assumptions.

love

vince

Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

Thank you so much for answering me. It is very helpful, your words are like a soothing medicine. What's the ailment? Confusion!! May I please ask you, what do you mean by meditating on how the show actually works?

I like the idea of laughing to change the conditioning :) I can see how this would work.

Thank you, Vince!

Paloma

vince schubert said...

Sure. If you meditate on, say, what is it that you actually know ?
What is more than a belief ?
For example, when i was a kid, my mother woke me to get ready for school.
I dragged myself out of bed, still tired, and dressed and was just heading out of the door to get breakfast, when my mother woke me to get ready for school.
My point is, that if you only know that you were dreaming after you wake up, how do you KNOW that you aren't dreaming now ?
Is there anything that you can safely say is actually known ?
Meditate on that for one session and come back with what answers arise.

love

vince

Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

I will do! May I contact you on your email address, if that's ok with you? :)

Thank you so much, Vince

Paloma

PS. I don't THINK I'm dreaming, but you are right, I don't KNOW that I'm not dreaming ... mmmhh

vince schubert said...

That is ok, although keeping it public might benefit somebody else...

Ssplash said...

Sure, I just didn't want to take over your blog's bandwith :):) Will report back, Vince!

Thank you for your dialogue!

Cheers,

Paloma

Ssplash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

What I find in this meditation is that what's true is that I've showed up, that I'm breathing ...

Thank you, Vince :)

Paloma

vince schubert said...

That is purely intellectual. It's conceptual.
Certainly you can experience that breathing is happening, but to say that there is a 'you' that is doing it cannot be experienced. It can only be deduced.
Do you actually experience anything more than sensations ?

love

vince

Ssplash said...

Hi, Vince

I have been at LU since November engaged in conversation with a lovely guide, and I have been able to slowly gauge that the I/thought is not real. As you mentioned, my understanding is still more intellectual than intuitive. Indeed I experience sensations, and those bring about thoughts, including the thought of "me" breathing. I'm also working with self-enquiry, although it's early days. When I ask about the self, I do experience a brief gap in thought, a halt, a resting respite. I wonder if that's what you're referring to when you talk about what is actually known ...

Thank you, Vince

Paloma