Sunday, February 12, 2012

That anger outburst...

Thoughts that the anger outburst mentioned in the last post may just be a portal to deepening.
How to access it was the question.
Listing any beliefs held, starting with beliefs that may have been behind whatever i was doing when expressing the anger.
Wife accused me of being greedy.
I responded with anger, shouting back "NO, YOU ARE WRONG."
So obviously there is a belief that i am not greedy. That's 1.
2. Equally obvious is that to be greedy or not greedy, there has to be someone to be that way. An I !
3. This implies that for there to be an I, then i am not through the gate.
4. This means that at best, i only ever had an intellectual understanding of it.
5. Does that mean that the I that i intellectually understand is not there, doesn't exist, is still really believed in by the me that i intellectually understand doesn't exist ?
Well, look where that lead me;
The non existant I is a fraud.
The non existant I is pretending to be a non existant I but really is still identified with that non existant I.
What is this non existant I to do?
The non existant I that has no choice anyway. That never actually controlled anything, what is it to do knowing that it can't do anything anyway ?
How can it stop being a fraud and really, really SEE that the non existant I can't possibly identify with a non existant I because it never existed in the first place ?

The Replies.

Re: That anger outburst...

Post by Elizabeth » February 12th, 2012, 12:27 am
Well, once you start a nice self-reflective loop like that :-) you may be hooked for a while. It's also a you wanting things done on it's own timetable (which does not exist) so that if it does not happen the way a you wants it to, the I exists, Yay! Because the nothing is not conforming! Proof! 
Or not. 
It's another layer of illusion. Look and see. Just another opportunity, and lucky you, a very juicy one. Excellent chance to deepen! 
Honestly, I don't know if am on target with this, Vince, the loop is very clear from here but I'll bet you get great comments so we will both be interested.

Re: That anger outburst...

Post by nonaparry » February 12th, 2012, 6:44 am
What i see here is a Story about an experience: "Wife spoke; i upset myself and spoke. Then i thought."

So obviously there is a belief that i am not greedy.

Actually, this is false; the belief that produced the anger was not that you are not-greedy; it's the belief that yes, she's right, you aregreedy, but somehow that's bad.

i am most fortunate in having The Work to use in situations like this one. if you 'accuse' me of x, i can find where i am x!!! i know i am greedy — so it's easy to see that greediness just happens, and we all partake of it in unique ways. Finding honest examples of where i have indeed acted as 'accused', allows me to meet the label with compassion instead of anger. And please notice that the statement "you are greedy" only becomes an accusation because you say so! 

One way of deconstructing the feelings is to ask yourself, "Wife says i'm greedy, and that means that..." This can bring up a list of fears, each of which can be inquired into through The Work. i find The Work completely compatible with LU, which makes sense as Katie is Awake.

Equally obvious is that to be greedy or not greedy, there has to be someone to be that way.

Oh Really? To be cold or not cold implies a person to be it? i give a physical example because i think it's the easiest way to debunk that falsity.
But really, Emotions clearly don't require an "I" in order to be felt! The feeling arises; it is just there. Only when you choose to identify with it does it become "special" or "you".

Re: That anger outburst...

Post by Ingen » February 12th, 2012, 2:41 am
Equally obvious is that to be greedy or not greedy, there has to be someone to be that way. An I !

It doesn't imply that at all. It just implies that you temporarily believe(d) some stories playing out between you and your wife, containing greedy and non-greedy self-images.

Re: That anger outburst...

Post by Chronophonix » February 12th, 2012, 12:35 am
Hi vince

May be this can help you, may be not, so I send it to you anyway. It's from one of my last message to Carrol.

You say you don't feel the no-separation, the consciousness connection, so, do you feel separation ? Is the other really one "other", separated from you ? The criteria is simple : the "other" is first a thought, then an emotion; the "other" can hurt you, dislike you, embarass you, scare you, when the "other" is here, you can feel akward, worried, insecure, you can be scared, annoyed, angry, and so on. Have you still such emotions ?
Do you still need to be somebody for anyone else ? To be special ? To be recognized ? Is it important for you to feel worthy to others ? If you answer yes to one or more of these questions, it's your "I" which is concerned. Only a "I" can feel the separation.

I think we are OK about the fact that if there is no "I", there can't be "other", and so, there can't be any separation feeling. So, by hunting all emotions which proves you the existence of the "other", you can deduce if really there is no "I" and then look more acutely to this.

Swami Prajnanpad used to say to his disciple who thought to be more liberated than they really were :
«Bring Swâmiji the wife(or husband)'s certificate»


Re: That anger outburst...

Post by Anki » February 12th, 2012, 9:25 am
Hi Vince... here's my penny's worth. The feedbacks:

Self-perpetuating loop from Elizabeth. Yes. So confusing.

Wife's (other's) certificate: Chronophonix. Oh yeah. There are 7 billion of 'us', each a mirror.

Temporarily believing some stories playing out: Ingen. Yup. Storyland.

Only when identifying with them do feelings/thoughts become 'special' (real): Nona. Yessir, everybody's baby, this one.

I like synopses, obviously. Here's my other contribution: When I find the core (which differs for everyone) I am at the root. That's where dissolving happens, which then reveals the truth awaiting.

These lovely feedbacks point to the core. When we recognize, usually via feelings,that we are going round and round, we can look further into the mirror of the external. This helps us realize that we have projected outwardly our very own 'story about' and then identified with it, i.e., temporarily believed that the story and the outward reflection are REAL things and oh so important! Then back to round and round we go.

Unless we look for core. That happens when we probe below the surface for the foundational beliefs beneath the more obvious ones. Eventually those core ideas dissolve (they can't endure the light of clarity), leaving the surface ever more smooth and undisturbed. Shining of clarity light, in my experience, sometimes has to happen numerous times. In the end, it does it. Dissolution of unconscious belief.

Seeing folly (our own), we yearn for Reality. Life's auto Zen stick. Lucky us!

I've spotted and vetted a lot of crap this way. I believed every smelly bit of it. And then I didn't.

Hope this is helpful.

Much love to my guide,

Re: That anger outburst...

Post by Anki » February 12th, 2012, 9:37 am
Also... going through the gate, absolute recognition of no I, CANNOT be erased. It happens, it's real. We re-identify with something not real, thoughts, etc. That causes us to temporarily set aside what non-identification proved: No self, no going back. Period.

Yes, I am a dictator on this.